tv Greta Van Susteren FOX News June 17, 2013 1:00am-2:00am EDT
have yyou have got a washin d.c. riddled in scandal. >> every scandal, stonewalled, refused to tell the truth. refused to cooperate. >> some of the hottest, most intense stories in the public there are. this is a pattern. there comes a point when you string it all together, what do these people know? and equally concerning, how can they not know? >> three very real scandals, benghazi, the irs, and the ap issue. clouding the public's trust on national security. >> 58% of those surveyed,
believe they have major doubt about the integrity and the honesty of the obama administration on benghazi, the irs and subpoena of journalist phone records. >> i want to make clear, the president has zero tolerance for misconduct by government employees. and zero tolerance has been demonstrated through his presidency. >> the real scandal of washington this is quickly becoming the most unproductive congress in the history of the united states. that is scandalous. >> this is a special edition of "on the record." tonight, an international manhunt for the contractor who leaked information. and looking for straight answers from the obama administration. >> we should be afraid what the government is doing in our name behind closed doors. what the government is doing in our name under the guise of keeping us safe. >> people can't trust the executive branch, but also don't
trust congress and don't trust federal judges to, make sure we're abiding by the discussion, due process and rule of law, we'll have some problems here. >> this program doesn't target innocent americans in any way, shape, or form many these programs have helped keep america safe. >> the federal government has no authority your honor our constitution or anywhere else, to collect data on every american's phone calls. >> we're trying to stop really bad people from doing bad things to millions of americans. hundreds of thousands for sure. but if not properly managed, you can see how they could be abused. >> my suspicion is every american is having data tracked. >> people don't trust them, rightly so. when it comes to this program, i support it. i think it helps us disrupt terrorist plots in the making. >> behind one of the biggest leaks of government secrets we have seen and heard about in years. now he's public, voluntarily
explaining to the world why he did what he did. >> i can wiretap anyone from you or your accountant or even the president. >> attorney general, would you go after him? >> in a new york minute. he has broken the law, broken faith with countrymen and our political system. >> you can't come forward against the world's most powerful intelligence agencies and be completely free from risk. such powerful adversaries, no one can meaningfully oppose them. if they want to get you, they will get you in time. >> this is the biggest snooping enterprise against americans ever. that is the takeaway, and the fundamental point. >> frustrated lawmakers trying to get answers from the obama administration. one official, dni james clapper, admitting he has given the least
untruthful answer. >> does the nsa collect any type of data at all on millions or hundreds of millions of americans? >> no, sir. >> it does not? >> not wittingly. cases where they could inadvertently collect. >> had it not been for the leaks, he would have gotten away with it. >> the president has said correct until my view that strong congressional oversight is absolutely essential in this area. ith not possible for the congress to do the kind of vigorous oversight that the president spoke about if you can't get straight answers. >> i was asked when are you going to stop beating your wife kind of question, not necessarily able to respond yes or no. i responded in the least
untruthful manner, which was saying no. >> you are not content with the answers. you gave his office a chance to amount it. >> we sent down a question ahead of time. we indicated to them afterward, there would be an opportunity to amend it. >> what did they do? respond? >> the answer at the hearing was never amended. >> the most truthful or least untruthful answer? what is the world does dni clapper mean by that. john boulton joins us. >> glad to be here. >> this suntisn't a question of whether he is a nice guy. the question is whether dni clapper should be refer to justice for investigation about whether he committed perjury. >> senator wyden's question, in fairness, he advised clapper he was going to ask the question. knowing that, it's pretty hard to say that the answer wasn't
perjurious. a famous french foreign minister once said, it's worse than a crime, it's a mistake. the stupidest possible answer to give. i don't think the question should have been asked at all. it can only be answered accurately in a classified environment. i still think it was a got you question. faced with a senator wanting to get headlines, clapper's answer should have been i would be glad to answer in a classified session. >> nsa testified untruthfully, and it was dni clapper, i regret making that mistake. what does the average american watching his testimony think, do you think? what impact? >> the purport of the question from senator wyden is to get people to believe that the government is looking over their shoulder when they are on the computer, listening in on their
phones, a deliberately provocative question, clapper should have gone to hill and said look, senator, do this in closed session and gone to the chair of the economy, say the same thing. even better answer, as we discussed, not appropriate to answer that question in open session. why clapper didn't do that, why the 5,000 employees of the director of national intelligence didn't explain that to him. why he didn't go to the white house, why he made up a religious answer and said it of the least untruthful, i don't have the slightest idea. i think he should resign over embarrassment. not because he lied. >> snowden, as far as long as he had worked for cia as a contractor, why did he have so much access? >> like bradley manning, the enlisted man in the army who revealed hundreds of thousands of diplomatic communications, we
have a real problem that has to be explain. i had say this about snow deb. i don't think his story holds together. i don't know if he has accomplices. picking up information from people on the hill who are leaking it to him. i fin it hard to believe he had access to everything he said he had access too. i also find it hard to believe that he's getting away with some of the truly outrageous and inaccurate things he said. and that contributed to the hysteria, in which the subject has deputy discussed the past couple of weeks. >> are you suspect that china is supporting him in any way, besides the fact that he is in hong kong. >> i don't think i know. i will say this, more about his motives emerge as he leaks information that has absolutely nothing to do with american's privacy. telling the chinese what may or may not be accurate information about our cyber warfare against
them, i thought this guy committed treason before. if the information that he indicated about china is true, i think that's count two in his treason indictment. >> ambassador, thank you. always nice to see you. is the obama administration deliberately keeping congress out of loop. rick klein tweeted, obama says every member of congress has been briefed on phone program, suggests only intel committee knew about p.r.i.s.m. congressman long says not quite. >> i am not aware of the program revealed today. we were never told we were able to find out the information has been revealed this week. so i think it's a fiction. a fissiction that everybody in congress know. >> intel committee gets briefed, full congress does not. >> a fine line that we need to have greater accountability and
greater transparency. >> most members of congress were not aware how broad this thing was, and i do think it probably suggests we need to have additional oversight. >> said every member of congress knew about the program, but i can tell you, that ones eye spoken to were unaware of the program. we were lied to as recently as march about the existence of the program. >> rick klein joins us now. the conversation this week with george stephanopoulos, it seems like kocongress didn't know. >> the difference is, every member of congress had access to this information, if they had gone to the classified briefings. the catch is, not a lot of the members knew what was going on in classified briefings. they get invited to briefings all the time. they didn't know this would be an important one, cast the same
way as the information we learned last week. so a lot of things that members of congress, rank and file members, most of them, legislately in the dark on this program. >> if i were invited to the classified briefing, that would be the one i would go to. they didn't think this classified one was important. i would think all classified briefings were important. >> they get invited to a lot of stuff. no staff into this briefing. ith difficult to know which one is worth it. maybe not that sympathetic to say i was too busy to go as a member of congress. what you learn in the briefing, you are not allowed to talk about or even act on. you can't tell most of your colleagues what happens in there. some members say, look, if i go and learn things i can't even complain about once i know them. i would rather not know. it's an interesting and to say the least system where they can't even talk about the things
they learn in there. >> can't they raise the hand inside the room, and at least have dialog among themselves? to say i didn't go. >> he had to write something in long hand, filed away for the record. nothing he could even do about it. fact, unless the committee chair or a majority of the intelligence committee members are opposed to something, when they hear about it, it's going to continue. a rank and file member has almost no say in this. to say they had a real public debate is a fall acy. >> does this go way or get bigger? >> it get bigger. the president wanted to have a debate. having it now for the first time. more calls for more public accountability, more public knowledge of what's going on. declassifying some of the programs, and members are not happy about learning about it through the press.
>> how does the president escape this one? >> he has enough bipartisan support, it doesn't touch him directly. but plenty of members of congress, far left, far right, fields like there need more information out there about what goes on. lawmaker, not the only ones fed up. enough of the government's cloak and dagger routine. so is the fisa court just a rubber stamp? former u.s. attorney general michael mukasey. >> the fisa court. i am critical when i look at the numbers. in year 2013 -- 2012, according to a letter sent to senate majority leader harry reid. 1,789 applications for electronic surveillance, they with drew one, and 1, 788 were
approved. it seems like a rubber stamp to me. >> it is not. they are very cautious about what they apply for, but thing they have going for they will, is their credibility. secondly, statistics don't tell you what changes made in those applications before they were granted, whether the court pushed back, as it sometimes does and asks for changes in the application. that often happens. >> it -- let me ask you this. in terms of the cautious nature. the best of the best, seeking the warrant to grab james rosen's information and that was anything but cautious. i would say it was reckless. >> that was not the national security division, u.s. attorney's office in the district of columbia, that submitted an ave davit that would have been bounced by anybody with a law degree and should have been. >> and it was not. that's what scares me. one thing about the fisa court, no challenge to the government. every time national security goes in, submits warrants in
front judge, they get sent back, to please the judge. no sort of checks and balances. why not have an ombudsman to speak with the people. maybe there should be pullback on the application? >> greta, are you mixing up two thing. the rosen affidavit was not committed to the fisa court, but to a magistrate judge in the district of columbia. >> a magistrate or federal court judge. i understand that, sir. these are experienced members of the bench. that wasn't a new magistrate or federal judge. >> royce lambert did not sign off on that affidavit. he wouldn't have signed off on that, even if he was woken up in the middle of the night. it was signed off by a magistrate judge. >> he is respected here. >> if you red read that affidavit, that warrant shouldn't have been granted. >> that's my point. the judges who sit on the fisa
court come off the district court this is an extra assignment, and we have no way to know what they are doing. >> of course we have no way to know what they are doing. they are involved in intelligence gathering, which is a sensitive process. what you are saying, no room for secrecy in the government. didn't have checks and balances at the time of the manhattan project. >> we ought to have some representative. recreate the fisa court. we have to have somebody that isn't saying yes, sir, yes, sir, to everything the government does. >> you don't know that's what they are doing or what the government is asking. >> when they get 100% of their application, i have to admit i'm suspicious. >> you may be suspicious, but they may be doing less than they should be doing because they only go after the safe cases. ray kelly says the percentage was too high because they weren't going far enough. >> what is the secrecy doing to
the kriblt of the government? that with brit hume, up. and does the targeting in the irs scandal go all the way to the top. trey gowdy here next, and donald trump, does he love the irs just as it is? we'll see. so being an advertising spokesman i have to look my best on camera. whether i'm telling people about how they could save money on car insurance with geico... yeah, a little bit more of the lime green love yeah... or letting them know they can reach geico 24/7 using the latest technology. go on, slather it all over. don't hold back, go on... it's these high-definition televisions, i'll tell ya, they show every wrinkle. geico. fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance.
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war within the house oversight committee, between darrell issa and elijah cummings. >> case is closed, end of story. >> based on everything i have seen, the case is solved. and if it were me, i would wrap up and move on. >> eridgea colijah cumming, say case of the irs targeting tea party groups, is involved. >> that is almost laughable. >> elijah cummings knows that the investigation, not a done deal. >> if it was solved, we would know who the rogue agents in cincinnati are.
lois lerner wouldn't need to plead the fifth. >> our job to root out the problem. >> darrell issa released interviews, suggesting that washington orchestrated the situation. >> this investigation is not over. we have to begin with the fact that this is beginning with an irs apology and declaration that they are targeting and persecuting con seventive groups, and we need to find out who and hold them accountable. >> how high up does the itch rs scandal go? trey gowdy joins us. >> thank you. nice to be here. >> we have the war between the chairman and ranking member. elijah cummings, the ranking, say the case is closed. is it? >> it is not. and i think mr. cumming would be
the first to tell you he spoke unartfully. can't tell you what he meant. what he said in subsequent interviews he has backed off a bit. >> nothing to tone down the rhetoric. a volley of letters between congressman cummings and chairman issa. topic is somewhat different. congressman issa wants all the transcripts from the people who work in ohio released? >> your honor the rule of completeness, he would be right. you were the rule of completion. but we're not in court. police can legally used art i physician and deception. not suggesting anyone would do that. a big difference between vest fwags and court proceeding. mr. cumming is speaking in terms of transparency, openness, and adjudicatory process.
and mr. cumming thinks we won't subject people to humiliation and resolution. police may released a profile or may not. refer in defense of what congressman cummings saying, he also added he would be willing to redact or take ta out or eliminate information that might be harmful or humiliate someone. and congressman isiah releasing little pieces of a dangling almost bait before the media. meant to tease the media, get information. that doesn't in any way advance the investigation, i mean, this is politics. >> it is politics, let me suggest one other possible motive. he may want to signal to other reluctant witnesses you are not alone. there are a myriad reasons why you wouldn't release all of the information, but some of the. i usually err on the side of
letting people know everything. >> all or nothing with me. >> but you would concede, there is a totally different standard for an investigation than in a courtroom. i mean -- >> i would concede that but i still don't -- as much as i appreciate the little piece of information that is getting released to us in my role on the show as a journalist. i -- i don't see -- i don't see how that advances the investigation for republicans to link little pieces advantageous to the republican viewpoint, a huge and growing scandal. >> the benefit i have. nerve sevened the minority. chairman issa ranking member when some things were done to his side that i think he remembers very well. it would be great if people treated one another the way you ought to treat one another. memps run long and asking a lot for chairman issa to all of a sudden be the good guy.
when dreadful things were done when he was the ranking member. >> so it's payback? >> i don't think it's payback. >>ith not the right thing to do, but the other guy did it. the other guy did it, i'm doing it now. it never stops. >> police do it all the time. reduce part of the information, one of the suspects, but not all four of the suspects. chairman issa could send a signal to someone on the pr preficice of coming gourd. among my limitations, i can't read chairman issa's mind, but i have the benefit of seeing those men talk privately and much less fighting and consternation and bitterness going on when the cameras are off that there. they get along well when nobody
is around. >> how high does this go? i realizith early. >> i would beg your pardon on whether or not it's early. i think we've had plenty of time to be farther along than we are now. the fact that we doan -- it's not isolated to cincinnati, comes out of d.c. we don't know how high up. more evidence that we need to have more depositions, keeping in mind you don't like the leaks, but more depositions and less committee hearings. >> and this has been going on several years, agree. bad -- >> i didn't mean to correct you. >> i actual al grow with the correction. congressman, nice to see you. >> you too. from targeting conservatives to waist wasting your money on line dancing. should the irs be abolishes. who will ultimately take the fall for the government scandals, obama administration,
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when the federal government has that much power in our individual lives, it's an invitation to being abused. i think we should move to a simple flat tax where the average american can fill out taxes on a postcard. >> should we abolish the irs? does donald trump like the irs just the way it is? let's ask him. donald trump joins us. >> hi, greta. >> is the irs fine the way it is, or you agree with senator cruz? >> a lot of different people with a lot of different ideas. some are go ahead, sood, some a. the tax code should be made
simpler as far as abolishing the irs, that could be a dangerous move. they have done a lot of good over the years. to abolish it, we're talking about an entirely different tax and tax code and that can be dangerous. >> all right. how much does the irs targeting scandal really matter to american people, other than those who are specifically targeted, who are very unhappy, as they should be? >> you know, utt beit's been am. the big three, the ap scandal, benghazi, i really thought benghazi was horrible, because the deaths of the ambassador and other people. terrible thing. terrible. you really would have to say because of that, the worst. but with benghazi and ap, and urs, i thought irs would resonate the most. but now other than you, greta, it doesn't seem like people are
talking about it much. it is fading, and i would say this, you talk about teflon, the president is really --ith an amazing phenomenon. it doesn't seem to be resonating like it did a couple of weeks ago. this was the biggest story, and they talk about the scandals, this was the biggest scandal and all of a sudden it doesn't seem to be resonating anymore. do you see that too? >> i think there is a lot for the american people to talk about as far as the recent nsa and benghazi. there is a lot on the plates of the american people and the economy still very sluggish. i'm curious. why do you think the irs has not resonated? >> i'm not talking about at the beginning. at the beginning, a massive point of discussion and a lot of people very upset in both parties, as they should be. over the last three or four days, not really talked about by
the liberal media nbcs, abcs, cc cbss, i'm not talking about it. >> how do you grade congress in oversight of the irs and the president in his response to the irs scandal? >> they are making a response. a strong response, but, again, the issue is not the same issue we had two weeks ago, fwreta. you know that as well as anybody. you are talking about it, sean hannity talking about it, bill talking about it. but a lot of people aren't and a lot of people incensed have given up the issue. and i'm surprised they have given it up. >> which matters more to you, when have you a discussion around the dinner table. which is more concern, the nsa discussion or benghazi at this point or journalists? >> they are so big.
benghazi is terrible because of what happened to the ambassador. not only the death, but the way he died, just like nobody -- this should never be allowed to happen. and the biggest problem i have with benghazi, the fact that there is no retribution. we know the people that did it, there's been no retribution. how do you allow this to happen. benghazi is really beyond anything very disgraceful the way it was handled. i would say this, the irs scandal should be the biggest, it's not. the other is a real mess. we talk about national security. is it national security, is it not national security. who wants to have people looking every time you make a call, who is listening? a really big scandal. i look at the factory virtually if you call it, that they are building. i have never seen anything like this. if it's a matter of national security, greta, a very
important thing. but it can't be, not to this extent. >> does the president seem engaged in terms of addressing these, or should he be engaged in these scandals that aren't necessarily his problem? >> he doesn't seem overly engaged and don't seem to really -- just happen one after another. never seen anything. never seen so much stuff. we've seen scandals and some beauties, never seen so many happen at one time and in a way, you know, having this many, somebody said, this is what they want. because nobody focused on anything, nobody focuses on the one that would resignate the best. a lot of people think it was done on purpose. you have a tremendous number of bad things happening in this country right now, greta. tremendous. call them scandals, that's what they are. they are happening at once and people aren't focusing. >> and why not? >> you'll have to answer that
question, greta. you are trying to get them to focus, but, as an example, ap, such a big deal, and the interesting -- the liberal media hated that more than anybody and that almost got them going on other things, but now they have calmed down, and everything seems to be just hunky-dory on that one. so it's amazing that this kind of stuff that these scandals, they just don't seem to last for a very long period of time. when you have 161 people going to the white house, you know, when you have 161 visits from the commissioner, that's to me like amazing. and you have -- >> donald -- >> and you have the secretary of defense going there 15 times, 20 times. that to me is amazing, but greta, it's not resonating. >> donald, always nice to talk to you. >> okay. thank you, bye. coming up, from the irs to nsa, most of washington mired in
for the most up to date news, log on to foxnews.com. one scandal after another from irs targeting to spying. who ended up most bruised and battered politically? senior political analyst brit hume joins us. nice to see you. >> nice to be here. irs scandal made strange bedfellows, ran paul and michael kucinich. >> if you get out there far enough, the scandal has hit the sweet spot. >> who is getting bruised politically? >> this is damaging to the obama administration, for a couple of reasons. just without any assumptions of how far it goes, just so far,
fair to say, it's hurt his credibility, and equally important, it's hurt the credibility of government in general, as an institution that can be trusted to do a good job of the tasks assigned it. and these scandals, spreading across several departments, raised doubts about the truthfulness of government officials, honesty and competence. that's harmful to the administration, which is an administration that believes in government and believe it could be an effective instrument to do good things. it's hurt. >> less of a problem, nationally, politically for the president than an international problem. when you have president putin lecturing us on privacy or angela merkel asking questions, and i think this is more noise here, but on a grander scale, internationally it harms us.
>> it embarrasses us, and it's harmful to have a president weakened politically and domestically weakened and in the world. but i think contributing to that also is the problem that the president has with international issues in terms of his resolve. when we had another example of the just, you know -- just now when a report comes out finally and they say we have a high degree of certainty that sarin gas used by the government in syria against the rebels. and the president had engaged in quite a lot of big talk about what a difference that would make and now, well, i'll talk to the allies and so forth. leaders around the world and think, what is this guy? this is weak this is lame. and i think that contributes as well to the fact that, you know, his will is not being worked in the world. >> the administration gave a big speech on immigration. one of the signature programs in the fist term. now a big immigration discussion
on capitol hill. do these scandals, as you use the term weak, does it have any impact on his ability to achieve that or congress achieve that which he wanted? >> it's hard to measure that. he was already being asked by democrats to stay out of the debate. this is -- this immigration bill is going to have to pass both houses, which means it has to get through the con seventive republican house, and the -- to those conservative members in the house, barack obama is radioactive, and the best thing he can do politically to help the bill is to not be front and center on it, and that's where he's been, and the bill has been moving, i'm not saying it's going to pass, all enhappily for the administration or cause of immigrant reform, but his weakness has already been displayed on the gun control matter when that collapsed. reduced to almost nothing and then failed. and he made a tremendous cause out of that. so he -- you know, it's amazing
what a difference five months make. think of where we were on january 20th. he looked bullet proof to a lot of people. won this surprise victory that "the washington post" called it a resowning victory, even fairly recently, and so on. he has very little to show for this. failed on guns, immigrant he had to stay out of, scandals have arisen. >> what do you think he thinks tonight? >> i'm sure he's frustrated. a bright guy that thinks he is a wine ma wise man. and i am sure he's frustrated. finds this unreasonable. he has more gray hairs. >> we all do. >> don't we all. me most of all. >> brit, thank you. >> you bet, greta. straight ahead with all of the double talk, do americans trust the government at all? [ male announcer ] technology. it's pretty amazing. because it saves things. [ cellphone beeps ]
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>> greta: scandals rocking our government. are they shaking america's trust in political leaders? hitting the ground to find out. >> that is automatic. i could do that. >> i feel better about the president than i do about congress generally speaking. >> i do. >> it's hard to trust people that, you know, you don't know what they're end goal is going to be. >> when you heard the thus, what are your thoughts? your reaction?
>> i was no shock. doi want -- boy like to say a healthy distrust of the government. >> it has shaken a little bit of confidence. you want everything secure. you know? you want to feel secure here in america. but you know, what lengths do we need that type of vigilance? you know? do we need everybody to be watched?. >> i'd like to think that the steps have been taken recently have been taken to protect our national security. i'm willing to sacrifice, make a sacrifice if that means it's going to protect citizens of the country. >> the irs targeting certain individuals. how do you feel about that? >> i haven't been targeted but yeah that is not fair. not the way to do business of any kind f we're targeting people in our business we'd be out of it president obama supposed to be the most open and transparent administration in history.
do you see it that way? >> you know the answer. transparency is not there. >> he hasn't been transparent since day one. >> he's been as nontransparent as any president before him. he's very much said one thing, done another. >> coming up, which kind of terror plots were stopped by the controversial spying program? we get closer to the answer, next.
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